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Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

I am an Excel guy (ok “guru” if you insist ;-) ).  For many, many reasons my career has been and always will be tied to development of better, more capable and “smarter” spreadsheets.

 

Recently I had the pleasure of spending several days hanging out with a kindred spirit in the form of Simon Murphy from England.  I hope I’m not out of line to say that Simon and I are in many ways clones of each other when it comes to why we do what we do, how we approach what we do, and in our concerns and disappointments with trends both past and present around our chosen technology.

 

Knowing that there is one guy out there like me makes me feel somewhat better about what I am doing, but the fact is that there need to be many more.  Oh sure, it’s nice to be the resident Excel guru for a country (which I sort of am – for what that’s worth).  But my concern is that if there aren’t more of us, then eventually no one will consider us and our technology as a possible solution for their business.  There isn’t a big called for BetaMax repairmen is there?

 

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard “What happens if you get hit by a truck?” (I prefer “What if you win the lottery?”)  When using Access in the past I could say honestly that there were a lot of people out there who could replace me – I’m not so sure about that anymore but that’s a discussion for another time.

 

But when it comes to advanced Excel work, we are few and far between.  I think the vast majority of Excel “wonks” out there are “power-users”.  By that I mean they have REAL jobs and Excel is the tool of choice.  These people collect a paycheck and their world is good.  But again what happens if THEY win the lottery or if they get another job or a promotion?  There needs to be a professional class of Excel “gurus” available to give corporations the comfort in knowing the skills are out there if they need them.  That is what the MCP program was designed to provide, but when it comes to Office, that program has fallen off the rails (I am riding on a train as I write this, so it seemed appropriate).

 

But with all the noise about VBA vs VSTO vs VSTA and with the complete lack of focus on the core skills required to use the application itself, why would a young person (or even an old person looking for new adventures) choose this as a career path?

 

I understand that in the EU there are actually organizations dedicated to the proper use of Spreadsheets.  Wow – what a great idea.  I’d love to run over and speak to those guys about our challenges in the NA business community but more than that I’d like to see something similar happening here.

 

Frankly this movement will have to be driven not by “developers” with an emphasis on “code” (whether it’s VBA or VSTO or VSTA) but rather by “Application Developers”, people who believe in the value that good spreadsheets provide (and the risks that bad spreadsheets create).

 

Any thoughts?

 

 
Published Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:41 AM by dmoffat

Comments

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Friday, April 20, 2007 4:44 AM by XL-Dennis

Dick,

In the late 80's and under the 90's it was possible to work fulltime as a core Excel consultant. Today the development gears towards a situation where it's required to know more about databases, SQL, SharePoint, Web ,  .NET and … … … To some extend it reflects the fact that the number of tools have increased over the time but it also reflects the environments the clients have today.

In general I find the “average” Excel member in the online community to have more knowledge and skillness then in the past, which is good.  Right or wrong, many clients define themselves as having good knowhow about Excel. After all, Excel has been around for 20 years.

However, in my opinion it’s a huge difference between having a technical skillness and how to apply it in well structured and robust clients’ solutions. It’s also a question to make some judgments about when it’s appropriated to use Excel and when it’s not. One case is about large workbooks (“Relevance lost – The Raise and Fall of Large workbooks” http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2005/12/10/relevance-lost-the-raise-and-fall-of-large-workbooks/).

Per se Excel is a calculation tool and not a general tool. In order to use it we need to have, at least, an interest for “numbers” and for “calculation”.

In addition, “spreadsheeting” requires a structural approach and to understand the business processes it should support. When I put these aspects together I can conclude that Excel requires a lot before making any usefulness of it.  Compared with other development platforms like the Web et al Excel becomes less attractive. Perhaps this makes younger people less interested.

The MCP program and later on the MVP program stood for a core deep knowledge about Excel. However, today it has turned out to be something that is used in MSFT’s marketing (“The deterioration of the MVP-program” http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/02/01/the-deterioration-of-the-mvp-program/)

Personally I don’t see any issues with the ongoing public discussion about VBA/VSTO/VSTA. I would be more worried if there was no discussion at all!

Kind regards,

Dennis

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Friday, April 20, 2007 6:43 AM by dmoffat

Dennis:

Thanx for your thoughts.

"In addition, “spreadsheeting” requires a structural approach and to understand the business processes it should support. When I put these aspects together I can conclude that Excel requires a lot before making any usefulness of it.  Compared with other development platforms like the Web et al Excel becomes less attractive. Perhaps this makes younger people less interested."

Too true.....  That is the exact problem.  Ironically this works to the advantage of us "grey-beards" in that it keeps the pool of knowledgeable "experts" low.  If business is to continue to get value from this technology though, there has to be MORE skilled spreadsheet developers (and as you said they MUST of course understand not just Excel but databases and collaboration).

As you so capably explained - to be a spreadsheet "expert" you have to have a lot of skills, and many if not most of those skills relate to business processes.  It's a BIG personal investment.  The benefits to corporations of this investment are obvious to me but somehow the marketplace needs to be nudged to encourage more people to get in this game.

Frankly it's been a great gig for me for the last twenty+ years and I suggest it highly ;-).

Dick

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Friday, April 20, 2007 7:50 AM by XL-Dennis

Dick,

"Ironically this works to the advantage of us "grey-beards" in that it keeps the pool of knowledgeable "experts" low."

Yes, it's true. But as we know, in the long run we need to 'fill in the gaps'.

Most Excel consultants that I know of (in my part of the world)started out around 89-93. Some of them will be retired within 4-5 years. OK, we who are still in business can gain on it but again only in the short run.

"Frankly it's been a great gig for me for the last twenty+ years and I suggest it highly ;-)"

I certainly agree on that:-)

Kind regards,

Dennis

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Monday, April 23, 2007 3:03 PM by Simon

Dick

Aye, Betamax sums it up very well!

Do you think our Excel 97 gravy train is pulling out of town without us?? (or have the wheels finally fallen off?)

Very interesting post actually, you raise a good point about where are the next generation of developers with strong business skills, good spreadsheeting, good programming and good database skills (and the wisdom to know how much of each to use in any given system) are going to come from.

If they have any sense they will pick a technology that is more mainstream and easier to learn - like Relational databases, or .net or something that follows the classic theories.

Have you seen this article?

http://www.codematic.net/Excel-development/Excel-dev-general/excel-developers.htm

another point

Aren't all excel developers escaping from a more mundane original profession?

cheers

Simon

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Monday, April 23, 2007 3:14 PM by Simon

Dennis

I agree with you too, I think you may have hit the nail on the head suggesting Excel may be less attractive than web development for some people.

My worry is the betamax scenario Dick mentions, and I think that is what is happening. As you say though, could be good for a few years.

cheers

Simon

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Monday, April 23, 2007 4:46 PM by dmoffat

Simon:

"If they have any sense they will pick a technology that is more mainstream and easier to learn - like Relational databases, or .net or something that follows the classic theories."

Yes but then they will tend to be like chickens in a modern chicken farm (stuck in a cage spitting out code -  great image eh?).  

I like being "Free-Range" and I think I know why.  I am my own Salesman, my own analyst, I write my own code, manage my own (and client) testing, and do my own tech support.  How can it get more satisfying as a developer than that?

To me what we have to do is push the kind of thing you point out in that URL you had in your comment.  

Ironically, if MS does not promote the kind of stuff we are doing then as we have discussed, Excel will be gradually downgraded.  

But Excel COULD be driven into the core of Corporate IT in a way that it can't be dislodged.  Isn't that the goal of MS - to sell more product and to get "locked in" with clients?

I know that they think VSTO is the answer, but I am not sure.  VSTO is designed for what you called the "BIG" projects and I still don't think that the people who do that kind of work are really interested in incorporating Office apps in their work.  It simply doesn't fit their model.  They're trying to sell Excel to a bunch of people who wish it would go away.  Makes no sense to me.

Why not promote Excel dev for exactly what people like us have been able to do for so long? This should be Excel's finest hour (fast computers, lotsa RAM, ubiquitous connectivity, data stored in relational databases everywhere).  I don't understand why they can't seem to find a way to promote all these facts.

Regards:

Dick

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Monday, April 23, 2007 4:50 PM by dmoffat

""Aren't all excel developers escaping from a more mundane original profession?"

That's pretty astute ......... Another good argument for what we do......

Dick

# We're over here Dick...

Friday, April 27, 2007 1:16 AM by Marcus

Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone? We're over here Dick but our numbers are dwindling...

Hi Dick,

I've been doing MSO (primarily Excel w/ Access) development for over a decade. One trend I've observed is that in the past I could have gotten away with only Excel and VBA. Now, I nearly always tie Excel in with some other technology such as relational or multi-dimensional databases. This infers knowledge of SQL, MDX, ADO, ADOX, DAO and so on.

I'd agree that the majority of Excel 'developers' use Excel as an extension of their primary job. They're accountants or engineers who've tinkered with Excel/VBA enough to solve their immediate problems. I think this also affects the perception that clients have. They've seen what Roy in accounts payable has clobbered together and can't possibly imagine that you're going to be able to deliver anything that would justify your rate. (This is why I maintain a portfolio of my work).

At the other extreme, I've also seen some solutions developed by 'real' programmers. Often they we're worse than what a power user could build. I think the missing link is the core skills required to use the application which you touched on. When I use to teach VBA (Excel/Access/Word) the first rule I'd impart is learn the application. The better you know how to use Excel (or whatever) the better your solution will be. Too many times I've seen real programmers code loop through cells one at a time to replace some text, or whole swabs of code to format text in Word.

"Organisations... proper use of Spreadsheets...something similar here"

How serendipitous. I said effectually the same things a couple of days ago.

driven not by 'developers'

Agree totally. I'd even go one step further to suggest Business Solutions Developers. I see myself as solving business problems using MSO technology - not solving technical problems with MSO for the business. There's quite a distinction between the two.

All the best - Marcus

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Friday, April 27, 2007 3:38 AM by XL-Dennis

Marcus,

I like the expression Business Solutions Developer (BSD). Will use it in future discussions.

Kind regards,

Dennis

# re: Where Have All The Excel Guys/Gals Gone ?????

Friday, April 27, 2007 8:37 AM by dmoffat

Marcus:

"When I use to teach VBA (Excel/Access/Word) the first rule I'd impart is learn the application."

So did I !!!  Emphasis on the word "did".  Notice how we don't teach Excel and/or VBA anymore?  I'm not sure what that means but it is noticeable.

"Business Solutions Developer (BSD)."

Like it.

# Business Solutions Developer

Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:00 AM by Marcus

"Business Solutions Developer"

Be my guest - I haven't trade-marked it (yet :P).

dmoffat: It's interesting to see what back grounds MSO developers cam from. One of my other mantras was "dumb it down". This didn't mean make your solutions stupid, but apply the KISS principle. Too often new learners tried to make things impressive or complicated. As Einstein put it; 'make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler' (or something like that).

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